Tuesday, 31 December 2024

Brave new world?

Edited to add, 2 Jan 2025: For clarity, I do not like the way I think things may be going. This isn't a post saying "Hey guys, we should all stop worrying about this!" It's a rather poorly written post, and that's on me. I'll probably delete it eventually, but I don't want to do so now and pretend I hadn't written it. So it stays up for a bit.

The other day, Equestria Daily ran an editorial/discussion post entitled "What Should EQD Do About AI Art Once It's Indistinguishable?"  and after that brought a large reaction, Sethisto made a further post called "AI Art Filtering On EQD - A Followup".

It made interesting reading. The comments, though... they were a sometimes interesting, occasionally enlightening, but often frustrating read. For a start, some commenters entirely ignored the point behind the initial post: that AI art is not like it was even a year or two ago. While it still makes mistakes, with careful prompting for simple images at least some of those mistakes are now similar to those that human artists make. In other words, if you ban AI images on such grounds, the risk of false positives is pretty high.

Then there's the old chestnut that "AI art is soulless". Meaning what, exactly? Do you think deeply about the human artist behind the picture of flying Scootaloo you just grabbed from Derpibooru? Do you? For every single one of the 6,000 images in your Scootaloo folder? I'm afraid the first response that comes to mind there is "Yeah, right." In many, many cases what consumers think about is the picture itself. Not the human being who made it. I'm afraid I think at least some of this is artists trying to kid themselves into feeling better.

What about the charge that AI just steals artists' work without compensation or permission? Well, let me answer that with a question of my own. Do you get formal permission and pay licensing fees for the pictures of Rainbow Dash you sell online and at conventions? Why don't you? The easy, tempting answer of "Because screw corporations" doesn't really get anyone anywhere, especially as you are probably perfectly happy to go out and buy a bunch of plastic toy ponies and thereby enrich... corporations.

There are a number of people in the EQD comments complaining very stridently that even calling AI images "art" is disgusting and that their creators should be called "plagiarism machines" or some such. All I can say is, good luck with that. The really hard fact, the one you don't want to face, is that the large majority of consumers of your MLP fanart do not give a damn about you as a creator. If they treated every picture with love and respect and deep contemplation, they wouldn't have amassed thousands upon thousands and stuffed them in a PC or cloud folder.

All this applies just the same to us ponyfic writers as well, by the way. If there was a ponyfic out there as satisfying to read as the best of Cold in Gardez or horizon or Cynewulf but the product of an AI large language model, how many of its readers do you think would downvote¹ it purely for where it came from? I'll tell you: a damn sight fewer than already downvote every M/M shipping story, regardless of its literary quality. Most fans would lap it up.
¹ Or the equivalent. I'm assuming here the presence of a host site that did not ban AI-created works.

I think part of the problem here is the same one we see in wider social media: a relatively small number of very vocal people see others of like mind around them and misinterpret this as meaning that most people in general actively agree with them. The EQD comments are the same: most people who collect loads of pictures of Applejack or whoever never go near EQD, and certainly never go to the trouble of creating a Disqus account and actually commenting on posts.

We often congratulate ourselves in this fandom about how creative we are, and to an extent I think that's justified. 150,000 fanfics of a kids' cartoon about magical talking horses is a remarkable achievement. Nevertheless, the majority of people are fairly passive consumers. Most of us creators are a lot of the time, too. And most people are not like the ones who hammer out screeds every time an AI post turns up insisting that AI art has absolutely no worth.

I remember a book I read years ago, a book of imagined letters to and from great figures of history. There's one addressed to William Caxton from an abbot complaining about how Caxton's newfangled printing press is ruining the job prospects of the monkish calligraphers at the monastery. And how much did this stop the, well, soulless printing press displacing the monks in the end? Not at all. As I've said before, AI art is out of the bottle and it's not going back in. However much you complain, however justifiable you feel those complaints, it's still not going back in.

I do think that there will always be a place for human art, and that there will always be people who do care enough to want it. As a music industry analogy, these are the people who expend time and energy on attending live gigs. They're admirable people and musicians love them. But ever since the advent of recorded sound, they have never been the largest group. They'll be the equivalent of the people who go to conventions and commission art. Most people, though, will grab gratefully at that flawed but adorable picture of Apple Bloom created by AICaPone or whatever.

tl;dr? Creators can say "Keep AI out!" as much as they want. The fandom, as a group, isn't likely to listen.

12 comments:

  1. This may sound weird, but as a person who made a successful living doing art, I agree with you.

    Fandoms are notorious for preferring specific content over quality. i.e., any xenopedophile will prefer a mediocre picture of Scootaloo over a superb painting of an adult pony, or suchlike. (That's another benefit of Gen AI; The "artist" won't balk over even the most egregious kink. 5000 images of shitting dick-nipples? Sure thing, pal!)

    Fandom art is an edge case, anyway. Gen AI is destroying the careers of traditional commercial art professionals, but produces more art much faster for people to consume. Downtime reduced—profits increased—that's progress, right? I mean, I always told newbies that if it looked good, it was good, and it would be hypocritical of me to change my mind just because the art is a product of a sophisticated collage algorithm.

    On a personal, social level, lots of talentless guys would often say shit to me like, "I have a great idea for a comic you should draw!" as if their single median notion would be worth hundreds of hours of my time and effort. But now, they can now "draw" the damned stupid idea themselves, and stop bothering me! Everybody wins!

    You're right that it can't be stopped, and you're right that it will be (consistently) indistinguishable from mediocre human art very soon. It's also worth noting that a great many people actually prefer to suck down a McDonald's shitburger over a non-assembly line meal. Just because the quality regresses to the mean, I doesn't follow that most people will care.

    I guess that means that people like me who prefer life filled with intention and works with an artistic vision as opposed to homogenous, derivative schlock will have to search harder for art that gives satisfaction, but I'm smart enough to step out of the way of the juggernaut of progress, and let people have what they want with a wave of my hand and a cheery, "Good luck with that!"


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  2. I don't think "it's inevitable so why care about the morality of it" is as great an argument as you seemingly do. Genie's out of the bottle, sure; it's still unethical and damaging to the environment. Acting like pointing that out is hypocritical is a weird take, I guess? I'm not sure what the point of this blog is.

    Likewise, "intentionality is a nonfeature in art" coming from a reviewer is. Hm. I mean it's a position alright. I suppose you specify that "most readers" would not care if something is AI written, not that you in particular don't care, but seeing how this is about sites that -curate- fanfiction and fanart, being -against- that system of curation is... I mean it paints a rather nonflattering picture, I'm not going to lie.

    Again, "it's already a thing so why oppose it on ideological ground, just give up instantly because nobody gives a shit about you" might ring true to you. The most polite thing I can say here is that I heartily disagree."

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    1. Okay, I'm gonna push back a bit here. Where do you get the idea that I like what's happening and what's going to happen? I don't! After all, even though I'm some tiny-shot amateur rambler, everything I've done on this blog for the last 12 years depends on it being me who wrote it.

      If this were Dreamwidth/LiveJournal and there was a mood setting to go with the blog post, it would probably be "bleak". We absolutely are going to lose something that matters.

      I suppose you specify that "most readers" would not care if something is AI written, not that you in particular don't care

      Yes, and that's crucial. I didn't want to keep adding "...but hey guys, I care!" after every second para because that would have been incredibly annoying. But for what it's worth, I have a blog reviewing policy here that makes it pretty clear where my personal views are. I've repeatedly posted on Fimfiction my agreement with its no-AI-stories policy. Outside specific posts discussing AI capabilities I never post AI-generated art. And so on and so forth.

      Now, nobody's going to call this blog post a work of journalistic genius, least of all me. I hammered it out in about half an hour when I was feeling irritable. Yes, I do think it's hypocritical for someone to complain on "stolen property" grounds if they're simultaneously making money from someone else's characters. That doesn't mean none of their other objections are valid, but I do think it undermines that one.

      But look: if I really believed, deep in my heart, that AI could replace humans in an "and nothing of value was lost" kind of way, the logical thing for me to do would be to close down this blog and say, "So long and thanks for all the fish." The fact that I'm not doing that (and have no intention whatsoever of doing so) tells you something.

      So. I think most of the fandom won't care where their pics of Fluttershy come from. You will, and indeed I will. But my view -- and the reason for the "bleak" mood setting I mentioned earlier -- is that I think people who don't care will be the large majority. And soon.

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    2. ETA: I chose "Brave new world?" as a subject line for a reaason, and that reason wasn't "Hey, I wish I lived in Huxleyville!"

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  3. I think my main issue is not with the idea that a machine could rival a human: at least academically, that could tell us something important by way of being a reflection of our own techniques and methods. Whether someone interprets that in a scientific interest sense or an artistic self-reflection sense, it could provide fuel for future creative efforts (if only in a deliberate attempt to prove our complex humanity and defy simple algorithms).

    I'm more bothered by the "churn" aspect, of the "flood the zone with shit" variety. Even pre-AI, Sturgeon's Law put the ratio at something like 90% crap, 10% quality for artistic works (yes, that's more to illustrate a point than to be an accurate measurement, but you get the idea), which probably went some way towards e.g. fanfiction's poor reputation in the mainstream. Now with cheap AI, that ratio could skew far further to something like 99% crap, 1% quality, or 99.9% crap, 0.1% quality, and so on. Unless there was a clear sorting system to counter it, potentially even search engines will simply be overwhelmed. For people like me who feel fanfiction's reputation needs salvaging, that just increases the gradient on an already-uphill struggle.

    And I think that's a problem not only for people who genuinely want to select quality in what they consume, but especially for newcomers who don't have a pre-existing social network likely biased toward creating and enjoying that kind of thing in the first place. Meaning a lot more people will miss out on opportunities to experience it and anchor onto it due to sheer isolation among vast expanses.

    My other concerns aren't really with AI, but more with the vocal minorities in the pro- camp who seem determined to use it as a sort of passive-aggressive weapon against anyone who disagrees with them. It's one thing to suggest AI art could fill a niche in the popular market - the history of communication media replaced some, like video cassettes for DVDs, but preserved others with dedicated audiences for them such as radio and vinyl disk. It's quite another thing, though, when AI advocates start taunting concerned artists as if to stoke some sort of "class" warfare, with AI art as just a smokescreen for anti-quality hostility. Whatever the motivation behind the antagonism, as it gets backs up across a fandom, it comes across as potentially an extra way to pointlessly fracture a fanbase further in some sort of "artificial" culture war.

    Long story short, I'm less worried about the technology and more worried about the culture of the people behind it.

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  4. The constant developments in AI technologies and LLM's will never fail to make me feel miserable, but I also know better than to shake my fist at the sky or to demand a complete ban on AI-generated images/texts/music/whatever else AI's can do nowadays. (I mean, sometime, I still fantasize about this technology just disappearing, but it's on the same level of me winning the lottery: a feel-good fantasy not anchored into reality.)

    The genie's out of the bottle and is happily mass-producing pastel horse pictures and horsewords to anyone interested. I just wish that these AI-generated results would be properly tagged wherever they might end up being posted so that it can be filtered out (or filter everything else out, I suppose for some). Problem is, the internet doesn't exactly have the best track record of users adhering to this type of honor code, and it's not like it's going to get easier to figure out what's AI and what's not for a large chunk of the stuff being produced both by these technologies and by the typical amateur creator.

    It probably doesn't help that I feel personally threatened by these advancements in AI and LLM's as a Graduate/Master student in translation studies. I keep questioning myself/my life choices despite every professor I have telling us that AI won't replace human translators, that it'll just be another tool for us to use and so on. I guess the degree's not useless even if human translators are no longer required: I could still become an English/Dutch/French teacher, but that's not why I started studying this field. (Besides, with more and more students using ChatGPT for their homework and essays and such, I'm always going to have to struggle against AI's in some form or another).

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    1. If I may be not sarcastic and flippant for a moment, there is some hope that Generative AI may fail to live up to the wild promises of its proponents.

      The recursive nature of the training data, means that more and more of it is itself AI generated. Mistakes and "nightmares" get propagated and amplified. And that's not even taking into account the growing use of programs like Nightshade that are designed to disrupt datasets. So, the quality of GAI art may well start to degrade in the near future. Right now, most GAI prompters (or directors, or whatever grandiose title they're currently giving themselves) are having to generate dozens and dozens of images to get a single one that's of acceptable quality. And this is while AI companies are losing billions of dollars to keep their product affordable enough to addict people.

      Are fans going to spend hundreds of dollars to be able to generate a mediocre image of Fluttershy when the AI companies have to start charging them to stay afloat? For that sort of money, they could hire an actual artist!

      AI "art" and art tools will never go entirely away (until our civilization declines or face-plants) but I think there's a good chance it will become a niche professional tool unavailable to most amateurs.

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    2. Ooh, that's a very interesting thought. The capitalistic nightmare of AI replacing human creativity being stymied by... the free market.

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  5. If we stand together and push back, we can enact real change in the world.

    If we sit on our asses and throw our hands in the air, the world will change around us solely to benefit those who drive the change.

    These are some cynical, frankly bad takes, Logan. :/ I can't blame you, but I can also ask you to do better.

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    1. It seems that a few minutes after you posted that comment, you read my follow-up post, which makes it clear that I don't *like* the prospect of human-ness being pushed out. As I said in that post, I didn't write this particularly well -- it's a grumpy rant more than anything else -- and indeed I may eventually delete it. What I'm not going to do is to delete it now, as I think that would be a bit cowardly of me. But as I said elsewhere, that Brave New World reference in the subject line was a deliberate reference to a story set in a dystopia.

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    2. you're perfectly okay, don't worry :) we'll get through all this nonsense, somehow

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  6. I totally get the bleakness. I'm not going to come down on you for a vent post, especially one you're having second thoughts about. I'm struggling with similar cynicism in a lot of other areas, especially in the wake of the recent US election; a lot of people simply *don't care*.

    But before you delete the post, I do want to say that it's a huge honor to have made your shortlist of Top Three Pony Authors. ^..^

    -horizon

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