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| And Spike is still having more fun than I did |
S5E22: "What About Discord?"
My original rating: ★★
IMDb score: 5.5
Thoughts: This episode's IMDb rating is the lowest to date (though worse was to come much later on) and means that poor old Neal Dusedau, who also wrote "Princess Spike", is usually seen as one of the least successful FiM writers. I can't disagree – and while the earlier episode is merely not very good, "What About Discord" is outright bad, managing to be both bland and unpleasant. Annoyingly, the ep actually starts out quite well, with a cute and funny Twilight/Spike scene in the castle library. And then... it all falls apart. With perhaps the exception of Spike, pretty much everypony's characterisation is sufficiently warped to make them unappealing. Discord is full-on mean-spirited in a way that doesn't suit his post-reformation self. Rainbow is obnoxious. Fluttershy is uncaring. Rarity is ungenerous. Applejack doesn't speak plainly. Pinkie doesn't realise Twilight is unhappy. Twi herself is absurdly dense – I might just about buy that from the "How do you run a sleepover?" pony in early S1, but not from the experienced Princess of Friendship in late S5. The dialogue is often poor: "All you Apples look the same" – even from Discord, really? The one-note story drags and drags. Plus, of course, the personal angle: I hate people deliberately rubbing in that I missed out on something by making a point of telling in-jokes I don't get and then refusing to explain them.* It's a form of bullying, and one I've been on the end of in real life long ago, so I don't enjoy watching it and I'm not impressed the Manes get revenge on Discord at the end by doing it back to him. The vaguely good bit of the moral, that a bunch of friends can have sub-groups enjoying different things, had been done much better in "Scare Master" one episode earlier. Despite the mildly amusing Bob Ross joke, "What About Discord?" is a mess, and not the fun kind of mess either. Sadly it becomes the first one-star episode of the show's run.
* If you know me and have ever wondered why I sometimes awkwardly try to explain eg convention in-jokes, this is why.
Choice quote: Twilight: "Time travel is not something to be messed with." [A better line now we know what was in the season finale!]
New rating: ★
Next
up is "The Hooffields and McColts". Not an episode that sticks much in the memory, albeit a step up from this mess. I mainly remember it for disappointing me in my hopes for a brilliant Twilight/Fluttershy team-up.
Yep. This. One star is fairly generous. I still maintain that there is a good way to portray Discord and make him likeable despite his inherently contrary nature, but this isn't it. Dusedau shot for "trickster god" and hit "toxic teen."
ReplyDeleteI reserve the right to change this view once I get there, but I think he's a lot more appealing in "Dungeons & Discords" next season. From memory, that might actually be one of my two favourite late-series Discord appearances, with "Discordant Harmony" being the other.
DeleteHas anyone here ever seen Fish Hooks? I recall that was Dusedau's big claim to fame before joining the MLP roster, but despite it being a Disney cartoon I know nothing else about it.
DeleteLogan,
DeleteI honestly can't bring the second episode to mind, and the D&D one vaguely stirs up memories of going through the entire episode thinking, "Okay, how is Discord going to ruin this?" The fact that he didn't is pretty remarkable.
Cloptimist,
Hadn't even heard of it. Is it available anywhere except D+?
@iisaw: "Discordant Harmony" is the one where Discord invites Fluttershy to a tea party at his house and worries about how to make her feel comfortable.
Delete@The Cloptomist: I'm afraid to say I've never heard of that series either.
The Cloptimist, sorry. Apologies for the typo!
DeleteI've never seen Fish Hooks myself, but know of it primarily as Meghan McCarthy's main writing gig before she became Story Editor at FiM (except for one episode, she evaporated from the final season of Fish Hooks which was concurrent with Season 4 of FiM, which was around when Hasbro upgraded her to a higher brand management role).
DeleteIt was a storyboard-written show, so episodes could credit as many as five writers with the story before the actual "Written & Storyboarded By" credit, usually a solo or duo. There's a decent few notable names on the staff – aside from being co-developed by the one and only Alex Hirsch of Gravity Falls fame, directors include Maxwell Atoms, C. H. Greenblatt and Mr. Warburton, all creators of Cartoon Network shows (The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, Chowder and Codename Kids Next Door, respectively).
Of more interest to us: as well as Neal Dusedau, a certain Nick Confalone is a frequent presence there. Further proof that, much like Lauren Faust recommending writers she'd worked with on past shows during her time running the joint, so too did Meghan McCarthy!
As for availability, it doesn't have any physical release as far as I can tell, sadly. It is available for purchase on Amazon Prime in the UK, though not the US (guess Disney is better at keeping their shows exclusive there?). So yup, in Yanksville, just on D+.
"What About Discord?" – Production Changes
ReplyDeleteNOTE: I couldn't bring myself to spend hours going through the writing documents for this one. Instead, I dug up my rougher, cruder summary notes I made of this season's episodes in late 2020. So, apologies (or thanks, depending on your point of view), for a shorter go-around, with the main casualty been almost nothing in the way of Animatic Cuts, snippets in the final script that got cut from the episode for time.
PREMISE
It's unspecified business with Celestia that has Twilight busy. Upon her return, she finds her friends and Discord having a dinner part at Rarity's. Her attempts to find out what bonded them just confuse her, and the friendship seems genuine. Later, Discord shows up to her private book sorting event, and her friends are confused she doesn't know Discord loves organising things. She freaks out, alienating the others, and thus freaks out more, when it hits her: Discord's trying to drive them apart! Her grand plan to "prove" she thinks Discord's the best backfires embarrassingly. Then, surprisingly, Discord comes to her defence, and says she's so suspicious because, despite being a friend, she's always waiting for him to make a mistake. Twilight realises that's it: she forgave, but didn't forget, and to be a true friend she has to let that go. Discord concludes by swearing he wasn't trying to drive them apart, but it was funny to see Twilight go nuts.
Obviously one cannot tell from the above whether it would be played sincere or with the same tone as the final episode. It could have worked, but could have floundered just as easily too.
OUTLINE
Quite different on a scene-by-scene basis! The first few scenes aren't too different, though Twilight is still returning from business with Celestia, and on her own chariot (yeah, this season actually showed Twilight's Princess changes). The boutique scene has Rarity making Discord an outfit. Some elements – awkward inside jokes, Twilight being jealous, hurt and left out – aren't emphasised as much, because she goes to Zecora much earlier (the long scene of trying to recreate the group's fun happens with Twilight doing a Good Will Hunting-style equation on a board).
After some fun quips in the Zecora scene (she says the others being under a spell wouldn't be so bad, as maybe then Twilight and Spike would have time to hang out with lonely old her), Twilight coheres her friends into taking a potion, but nothing happens. Then, seeing the Mane 5 doing a synchronised back rub with Discord, her eye starts twitching. It all comes to a head when they arrive to help with her book sorting. Him saying organising is his thing sets her off – how could he get that close to them in one weekend? Discord's confused at her not trusting him, and Applejack points out Discord rejoining society has taken months, and they're befriended him all this time. Discord volunteers to do Twilight organising so she can calm down, and the others praise this thoughtful act. When Twilight screams organising is her thing, looking properly insane, they leave, head to a dinner at Discord's.
Twilight later shows up pretending to be Discord's friend, and he buys it, even the badly improvised secret hoofshake. When Fluttershy points out Twilight's trying to trick him, her magic goes out of control, chaotically, and the others tackle her before she causes too much damage. She later wakes up in her best with everyone around her, and we have the same conclusion as the Premise, Twilight having to confront that she forgave but didn't forget, but with the added wrinkle of the others saying they don't know how or when they truly moved past Discord's action, but they're better for it.
[scripts and final thoughts below]
[continued from above]
Delete1ST SCRIPT
Basically just an expansion of the above outline, with some changes (not surprising Hasbro gave the sack to Zecora's aside about being lonely). It's condensed down, omitting the marketplace scene and cutting straight from the potion-drinking scene to the book-sorting scene. There's some neat gags and visuals too – Discord stops Twilight saying something she'll regret by literally magic-ing her voice out into a floating orb like in The Little Mermaid. Twilight's plan before going to Discord's place has her flashbacks in creepy slow-motion, and visual descriptions play into Lessen Zero levels far more (hey, guess what episode Meghan McCarthy wrote?). It definitely flows better, but all the issues to this point are still present.
2ND SCRIPT
Standard stuff – mostly rewritten from the ground up, and what few differences exist get changed as the drafts progress. My only Animatic Cuts notes are the Zecora scene being longer still (it was a highlight to this point, sad it had to lose a lot), and the one scene of trying to recreate the moments with Discord playing out over two scenes, the cut one being at Sweet Apple Acres.
FINAL THOUGHTS
As one would expect from an episode this messy, unfocused, and disastrous, there was a massive rewrite after the 1st script.
I won't lie – most of the episode's problems were always there, namely the focus being all over the place, not deciding on whether Twilight is the abuser or the abusued. Far less emphasis on Twilight's jealously is certainly interesting too, though that could just be detail that wasn't emphasised until later.
But there are two big differences. Firstly, the cringe humour at inside jokes the audience is kept out of, and them being a drag that takes an hour to get through, that wasn't really a thing, or was at least much smaller, until the 2nd draft. Far more interesting is the element of Twilight not trusting Discord, and her having forgiven but not forgotten his past deeds. I can only assume Hasbro executives got squeamish at this and felt it was too much for their target audience, or that Discord's friendship with the Mane 5 would feel more "believable" if they didn't draw attention to his evil deeds, but just foregrounded his trickster personality. Because though it wasn't foreshadowed well prior to the third act and did come out of nowhere, it's still so, so interesting, a "gimme" fanfiction idea that would have been great to see in the show. We could have had a "Brotherhooves Social" situation, an episode saved by its final scene. Or at least boosted. Alas, the rewrites just left us with a hot mess that never gels and is a cringe of a chore to sit through.
So, yeah, things went wrong with this one!
That initial idea might well have floundered as you say, but it would have had to go some to end up as bad as what we eventually got...
DeleteThe premise sounds more horrifying than the actual episode to me! Forgiving and forgetting being portrayed as the ideal is a great way to raise a little girl up to be a serialy abused girlfriend.
DeleteI will say, it did emphasise strongly enough that Discord wasn't the same as he was back then, and honestly had reformed and changed his ways.
DeleteBut that said, perhaps that's another reason – or even the reason – why it was rebooted after a script was already written, with Hasbro executives or someone else twigging the ramifications caused by presenting such a message to an audience not yet capable of also internalising "only in some cases is this the right thing to do". It would certainly explain why the script thereafter has so much wheel-spinning, when you have to strip out the story's point and improvise a new one based on what's left. Not an easy task at the best of times.
My reaction whenever I hear this episode's title is always "What about him? >:|"
ReplyDelete"The one-note story drags and drags." Definitely the main problem, made only worse by the poor characterization. What an awful trash fire of an episode.
I've always said no episode of FiM is devoid of good stuff. This one manages that with the opening scene, but there's precious little else.
DeletePP, you are such a nice person! My reaction is, "Fuck Discord!"
Deleteit's all about the wordplay :V
DeleteYes, this episode had very little going for it. Everyone was aggressively against character, Discord was just plain unlikable, and the one joke got old in the first couple of minutes, much less beating it over and over again for the entire episode. I've never rewatched this one, and I never care to.
ReplyDeleteI doubt I'll ever watch it again unless I do another rewatch thing, or possibly someone's sponsoring me for some huge sum of money to endure it for charity! :P
DeleteI'm *fairly* sure this is my least favourite episode of the entire canon, and for all the supposedly whimsical silliness I don't remember the kids ever wanting to rewatch this one either. It's now been almost as long since this aired as it had been between Episode 1 and this - indeed, by some counts depending on how you manage two parters or count Best Gift Ever, this marks the exact midpoint of the show's run. I still hate it. Rot its bones.
ReplyDeleteI think it's probably my least favourite, too. For all "Non-Compete Clause" is pretty dire (I suspect that will be bumped down to one star) it doesn't upset me like "What About Discord?" does.
Delete