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| Feel the wave of sound as it crashes down |
My original rating: ★★★★★ (for both parts)
IMDb score: 8.5
The one with Mister TheBearded
Thoughts: The first episode of this two-parter got docked not one but two stars since my delighted 2017 review. This one, I'm afraid, is going the same way. I think I was wowed by... well, everything first time out, as were a lot of people, but now the shine has worn off a bit. The fact that little was done with the Pillars after this doesn't help. Mind you, grumpy Star Swirl is good fun to watch, except for Twilight I guess. The origin story for the Elements of Harmony is... okay, I guess. I like Starlight being the voice of compassion and redemption for the Pony of Shadows. It's fun to have the map again, silly as it is. I had actually forgotten the Sirens' part in Stygian's backstory, and I still like that aspect. And look, we did get the ponies using the Elements one more time. That's worth a bit on its own. So... three stars again. Not as good as I once thought, a bit jumbled in parts yes, but I still had fun. That's still a decent three-star rating.
Choice quote: Rainbow Dash: "Oh, we've saved the world, beardo. And we can do it again."
New rating: ★★★
And here we are, finally, at the end of Season 7! I published the "Celestial Advice" rewatch on 31st July 2023, so the season as a whole has taken more than 13 months. Two episodes per month on average, a far cry from the pace of two per week I kept up in the early days of this series! I hope to get through S8 and S9 considerably faster than I managed with S7.
Before too long, I will post the usual post-season stats and thoughts about the season. Then it will be on to the changes that S8 brought. I know not all of you will be staying with me for that, certainly not for every episode, so to you I say thank you for coming along on the ride this far. For those who are staying, let's see what we can find!
Amigo,I had a similar experience myself, as in I used to be a lot more enthusiastic about this two-parter than I am nowadays. For me, it was always the concepts that held it aloft.
ReplyDeleteFor one thing, I love the idea of a precursor group to the current Elements of Harmony, especially the contrast between the old way of dealing with villains (blast the heck out of them) and the new way (try to give them a second chance). It could work as surprisingly good thematic or direct meta-commentary on how people's attitudes to justice change over time. Then there's also the implied focus on "harmony" rather than "friendship", given the broader knowledge that Star Swirl never quite grasped the latter, which has all sorts of implications for how the Tree developed into the entity that it is.
Another thing that I liked was how Stygian/The Pony of Shadows (though I wish they hadn't already used the concept back in "Castle Mane-ia") echoed the fate of Princess Luna/Nightmare Moon at the beginning of the series, giving this whole thing an implied bookend approach to the show as a whole. Plus the conflict feels like it could be a case of both sides having a point, with Stygian doing some morally questionable things but the Pillars being implied to have genuinely neglected him: had that been a point of emphasis rather than largely glossed over (as it stands, Stygian comes across as more culpable than the narrative recognizes), I'd have been all for it.
The trouble is that the two-parter really doesn't do enough with it. Or rather, it's doing too many things all at once. Last episode was largely buildup with the quests in the middle, and prior Pillars episodes haven't done nearly enough to flesh out the ensemble, so it all comes across as cliff notes at best and very unsatisfying (you really only need Star Swirl and Stygian for the conflict). Combined - yes - with the Pillars being sidelined immediately afterwards as well, and all that lovely potential just goes to waste.
That all said, I STRONGLY disagree with the idea that Starlight's presence improves things. It's the two-ton hay bale that snaps the camel's back, in my opinion. Her redemption was so unearned, and the narrative is so consistently and annoyingly stacked in her favour (notably at the expense of the Mane Six here, and it's not like they've been treated fairly in two-parters even before she came along), that for me she kills what little goodwill I had for the redemption-based discussion point. Because she's an AWFUL example of it.
Don't talk to me about redemption when your spokespony is someone who not only basically got off scot-free with a rose-strewn path for all the creepy heinous nonsense she pulled (and still pulls - "Uncommon Bond" was only two eps ago!), but outright got rewarded and promoted for it purely because she's OP and had a (pitifully inexcusable) Freudian excuse that, in practice, meant her time travel bullshit became little more than an emo terrorist incident wherein her demands ultimately got met. Such a poor showcase of rehabilitation protocol and "realistic" moral psychology renders any discussion of "redemption" here profoundly insincere, as far as I'm concerned.
So broadly speaking: the eps as a whole are more style than substance, and at least one element I find outright distasteful. So past that potential, I admit it does lose some lustre for me personally, to the point I don't bother rewatching it anymore on revisits. Which is a shame, but there you go.
I knew you'd disagree pretty vehemently when it came to Starlight! Perhaps I give her a little too much credit, but I did genuinely enjoy her here, so... the rest I think we're largely on the same page about.
DeleteSince you're not going to be following through S8 and S9, thank you for being such an interesting commenter on these rewatches! It's been great to have such strong opinions expressed so coherently. :)
Well, as the saying goes: "De gustibus non est disputandum." We like what we like.
DeleteThe funny thing about the redemption angle more broadly is that, of the Pillars, one of them has already saved a fallen friend (Mistmane, confronting Sable Spirit). You'd think she'd have something to say about Stygian's case. Yet I'm not sure the writing team for Season Seven even noticed the parallels.
"Since you're not going to be following through S8 and S9, thank you for being such an interesting commenter on these rewatches! It's been great to have such strong opinions expressed so coherently. :)"
Hence why I'm called Impossible Numbers. :P
Well, I might pop my nose in if I see a particularly interesting ep I remember. "The Washouts" and "Sounds of Silence" might be worth a look.
Still, if ever you want to go around the carousel again, I'm game to hop back on the ride. Would be interesting to see how episodes stack up then and now for me personally, especially if a new "G6" series comes along by way of compare and contrast.
Heh, I could make it a perpetual series! Mind you, the amount of time in taking over this one, it's not far off that anyway...
Delete"What Lies Beneath" is the other S8 episode that gets good reviews, but it is very much a Young Six ep so not to everyone's taste.
Like with Part 1, I do think I liked this more than my memories and then I expected, though not as much. And I suspect this was more a case of having built up the flaws so much that they weren't as bad as all that, while still being plenty problematic.
ReplyDeleteStill, I'll lead with the positives. I'm aware many didn't like him here after years of their own headcanon, but I find this interpretation of Star Swirl works quite well, both for the narrative, the underlying thematic links and layering, and to watch. Sure, the cramped narrative short-changes his arc here (though with 24% of the dialogue, he's unscathed relative to everyone else), and he's a victim of the Season Seven approach to writing dialogue as much as anyone, but his stubbornness manages to mostly hit that balance of being annoying for other characters, but not the audience. And by wisely staying away from old-timey English (let's be honest, Haber and Dubuc would have blown it big time), but just having more… I guess "raw" synonyms peppered into his speech (referring to Equestria as a realm, etc.), he feels old-timey enough for the cartoon simplification.
Most other positives fall into "intriguing concept, lacklustre execution". All the material about Harmony and dealing with villains back then relative to now, that's good, as is this villain echoing Nightmare Moon in many ways. Generically so, but the Pony of Shadows is at least boosted by great animation. I don't wish to undermine that, I think the bones of a really solid two-parter are here, if some elements were allowed to be removed (which I suspect the show writers were not due to prior setup ones being in the can). Of course, that's the elephant: this episode remains the poster boy for "overstuffed two-parter" for a reason. Hay, you can even tell the show was never meant to have this many characters in so many shots, because while most episodes swap up where characters stand in relation to each other from scene to scene, just as real people do, this one always has the Mane 5 and their Pillar counterparts together, probably to save on storyboard work.
DannyJ broke it down beautifully on his retrospective blog of Season Seven, but literally the only reason for the five Pillars existing is to enable this new origin for the Tree of Harmony. Which on top of breaking "the mystery is far more exciting then any reality", is lame itself, was ignored and retconned the very next season under the Story Editor hands of this episode's very writers, and even here, retcons something like half the expanded universe material and even the backstory of a few two-parters. Take all that out, leave it at just Star Swirl and Stygian, and boom, you have enough screentime to tackle all the elements at play here properly (well, properly by the scale of prior two-parters, anyway).
Finally, I'd said in Part One that Haber's usual tics weren't really noticeable due to being occupied with incident. I take that back: Starlight's foregrounding here is every bit the Creator's Pet treatment she got in Season Six (Haber didn't write until E18 this season, so we'd been spared it for a while): the foregrounding of her speaking up, and other characters like the Mane 5 being often silent/sidelined, just does not feel organic in the slightest. And while the distance since her "redemption" means her being the spokespony isn't as terrible as in "To Where and Back Again", it grates fast. Honestly, I think even if someone paid no attention to episode writers, they'd notice how much the narrative here builds itself around her where that is concerned, especially having Twilight relinquish her principles so easily.
All that and it's still unquestionably the best two-parter in the show's last five seasons! Ah, well, it's busy, and enough elements are interesting, and some properly work. So, I'll take a mixed effort, even if it puzzles me, flash, style and all, that this would have been acclaimed when it was new (dissatisfaction off the movie leaving a thirst, yeah, but come on).
"All that and it's still unquestionably the best two-parter in the show's last five seasons!"
DeleteDid you mean "last four seasons"? Because the last five would include Season Five (because that's 9, 8, 7, 6, and 5), and thus includes "The Cutie Map", which I'd hold up as the unquestionable best in that category.
There was a mistake, yes, though not that one of clarification (though you know I adore “The Cutie Map” as much as yourself), more one of omission. I’d meant to say “best two-parter finale of the last five seasons” and while that does cover less of them than saying “best two-parter of the last four seasons”, I still chose it because it covers more time and shows, rather frankly, how slipshod the show’s track record with two-parter finales is (of the seven, only those in Season Two and Four can be called good or better).
DeleteIncidentally, that ratio of 2 in 7 only improves marginally to 3 in 9 if we allow single finales, what with “Magical Mystery Cure” being a thing.
@Ghost Mike It's a good point that the show has quite a poor record when it comes to season finales later on. I would personally class S1E26 as a reasonably good finale, though, even if it doesn't entirely feel like a season-ender in the way later finales do. That gives all four of the opening seasons a good ending, which isn't bad.
DeleteJust for clarity (I can’t tell if you got or missed my point) I was saying that “The Best Night Ever” IS a really good episode, finale or otherwise. I kinda wish the show had allowed itself a more low-stakes seasonal arc again that didn’t need an action two-parter to resolve, given that plays more to its strengths as evidenced by its batting average throughout its run (despite my fondness for action-adventure as a genre!).
DeleteBut my mention of “Magical Mystery Cure” was implying of the two single-episode season finales, that it’s the one that doesn’t work. I realize that’s far from a consensus opinion, of course.
I was tired and missed your point. Come on Mike, you know by now how often I can do that! ;) But yeah, as I think you know I am kinder to the finales than you are, notably S5 and S6 which I still like quite a bit, albeit with more reservations than I had first time around.
DeleteLike I did with To Where and Back Again, I've waited until both parts were revisited so that I could give my thoughts on the finale as a whole. So, Shadow Play.
ReplyDeleteI liked this finale a lot when it first premiered seven years ago, and come 2024, I still do to this day. Sure, it isn't on the level of Twilight's Kingdom, but I'd say that it comes fairly close. I've personally never had a problem with how Star Swirl is portrayed; if anything, I feel like this portrayal is more interesting for how he (and the rest of the Pillars) were also in the wrong for shunning Stygian. Just goes to show that just because someone's on the side of good, that doesn't mean they're necessarily nice.
Also, I've never really understood why Starlight gets accused of being the hero of the finale; she's just a contributor to saving the day rather than just being the "be all, end all" solution to a conflict. It's a group effort on the whole.
So yeah, Shadow Play, to me, holds up as a pretty strong finale to season seven, and the last great finale that Friendship is Magic ever had; the last two simply don't hold a candle to this one, let alone Twilight's Kingdom. But of course, we'll come to those when we come to those.