Thanks to Mike Cartoon Karma for bringing up this subject in another forum. I like the idea and so will use it here! I'm going to tweak the criteria just a little for my purposes, so here we go:
Which episode of Friendship is Magic do you think is underrated?
I'm not going to define "underrated" too specifically, but I do generally mean by the fandom as a whole, not just by me or those who comment here. You can answer this pretty much how you like, but I'll add a few pointers:
* Try to pick only one episode. I know it's tough. That's part of the fun!
* I mean full-length show episodes, not films or shorts. "Best Gift Ever" counts.
* Double-length premieres/finales count as one, so they're eligible.
* Please stick to underrated here. Yes, I will ask the same about overrated eps at some point – but not today.
As for me? I'll stick to the answer I gave Mike when he asked elsewhere: "Flutter Brutter". When we asked people to rank S6 episodes on UK of Equestria shortly after that season finished, "Flutter Brutter" ended up way down, averaging something like 20th place. I thought then, and still think, that that was harsh.
It's not an outright classic, sure, but I think it's a decent episode with solid Fluttershy characterisation. I suspect many people rank "Flutter Brutter" poorly because they don't like Zephyr – but then you're not supposed to like Zephyr. That is not a writing failure. S6 isn't chock-full of brilliance, so I think this episode deserved better than 20th spot.
So there's my answer. What's yours?
My personal pick would be Discordant Harmony, a very enjoyable Discord episode which tends to get forgotten as it was aired on the same day as The Perfect Pear in the US.
ReplyDeleteI like that episode too; it's probably in my top half-dozen or so from S7. I'd forgotten about the air date thing, but that makes sense.
DeletePony POV comes immediately to mind. I really enjoyed that episode, but I think it's considered a fairly weak installment for season 7.
ReplyDeleteI'd have to think more to see if there was anything else I'd consider underrated, but that might run into violating rule #1, so let's go with that. :)
I can't remember much about that episode other than the bunyip thing, which soured me on it considerably. Maybe I was being unfair; I'll see in... um, at some point. :P
Delete"I think it's considered a fairly weak installment for season 7."
Delete"P.P.O.V. (Pony Point of View)" is in Season 6, actually. It's the 22nd episode.
It definitely didn't do much for S7, then. :P
DeleteI usually don't much care for POV shennanigans, but watching the ponies flanderize each other really targeted my funnybone.
DeleteI think without the bunyip, I might be a little more favourably inclined towards it. Less unfavourably inclined, at any rate. But that ending is just too much for me to swallow. (Hostage to fortune when I haven't yet rewatched the ep, of course!)
DeleteIt's an interesting question. Generally, people consider episodes underrated if their opinion is higher than the general consensus. Unfortunately, I'm not particularly in touch with the wider fandom these days, so my sample size is limited!
ReplyDeleteHaving a glance down the episode list, there's a few that sprung. I could have gone with the one I usually do (you might know the one :P). But to be more interesting, I'll actually say 'To Change a Changeling'. AKA 'the one with Pharynx'.
Like your Zephyr point above, I don't think a lot of people took to Pharynx very well. I initially didn't either. But after reading a post from a military Brony, I realised that he was a good representation of someone struggling to readjust to civilian life.
The episode as a whole isn't the best. I'm thinking of that dumb "why are you hitting yourself!" scene. But it was cool to see inside the reformed changeling hive. And Pharynx's eventual transformation was nice.
Picking up on your Zephyr point again. I count myself as one of those who didn't like him much at all (at least in Flutter Brutter). I agree that it was probably intentional for him to be dislikeable. But I don't think that necessarily excuses the fact he detracts from the episode, or that it represents good writing. After all, the aim would be to have an enjoyable episode overall? And obviously it's possible to have likeable antagonists.
I wouldn't count Zephyr in the 'love to hate' category either. When he's smashing his father's cloud collection, that's just being a dick. I would say they did a better job with him in 'Sparkle's Seven', serving mainly as Rainbow's cringey admirer.
Interesting choice there. I think "To Change a Changeling" would count as a middling episode for me, and probably for the fandom as a whole. I think it's fine, but it doesn't stick in my memory the way it does in yours. So yeah, it's not a bad shout if you think it deserves to be a bit better regarded than that.
DeleteI think "Sparkle's Seven" is a better episode than "Flutter Brutter", but as it's not generally underrated I couldn't choose it. I wouldn't place "Flutter Brutter" right up there with my favourite S6 episodes ("A Hearth's Warming Tail", "Buckball Season" etc) but I'd guess it would be closer to 10th in my S6 rankings than 20th.
I’d say “Three’s A Crowd” in Season 4 is underrated. IMDB gives it an 8.0, but I would rate it as among my favorites. It has perhaps my favorite characterization of Cadence (who was tragically under utilized in the series), good Twilight characterization, a great Discord song (Glass of Water) and wonderfully insecure Discord characterization.
ReplyDeleteThis episode demonstrates one great way to create a Discord story; he has an issue and uses his infinite power to create a crazy scenario that others have to solve in order to help Discord see the solution to his issue. Along the way, there can be crazy shenanigans and seeming danger.
Hey, good to see you commenting here again! It's been a while I think, but welcome back. An interesting choice, since I come at it from the other direction and feel it's a bit overrated! I'll see whether I still feel that way when I rewatch it, and if I do I'll explain why. But I wouldn't be entirely surprised if I'm a little more sympathetic to it this time around.
DeleteAw, I always aim to inspire, my friend!
ReplyDeleteMy answer is the same as it was from the time before: "Over a Barrel". Already I can predict a lot of people writing my take off as a result, but hear me out. It's by no means one of Season 1's top episodes, but I was surprised at how many "bottom FiM episodes" lists it popped up on (or sometimes on the dishonourable mentions) in the wake of the series' conclusion back in late 2019. Hence it as my pick. That, and I feel its many, MANY strengths frequently go unacknowledged because people just write it off due to focusing on other elements. Or, well, ONE specific element. I'll save that for a separate comment.
The overlooked things: this episode uses a "splitting the party" plot mechanic to great effect, and amazingly in its structure, manages to have an adventure episode NOT feel stuffed to fit 21 minutes and give its characters all something to do (even Fluttershy and Rarity, the two least-used, still get killer gags early on), something two-parters invariably failed at. As a story where the Mane 7 are interlopers, it balances them such that they don't overtake the already-present conflict but don't feel trivial to the proceedings - at least not in a detrimental way. And despite being a goofy comedy, there's tons of great character moments in this, not least for Rainbow Dash (and I love how this is one of Spike's best showings to this point in the series too).
Of course, the episode largely comes down to how one finds the comedy, which is naturally subjective, and I have occasionally read pieces from people who find it relentlessly unfunny. That, I can see, as I have found more and more Dave Polsky episodes problematic on my rewatch of the series. That's normally because of character-compromising humour, which isn't present at all here, amazingly. And I just generally find the comedy to be really good. Even "intentionally bad" things like Pinkie's song land for me.
Add to the above the fun Western town, the freedom in the series' first episode totally outside of Ponyville (there is a certain kinetic freedom in the animation, especially the action scene on the train, that elevates it) and we have an episode that, though perhaps not at the same heights as the stellar ones surrounding it, comes pretty close in my eyes.
Read the second comment below for my views on what many see as the episode's chief problem.
So, the elephant, or buffalo, as it were, in the room…
DeleteYes, I'm not American. But even factoring that into account, I honestly do not think this episode is offensive more than marginally. Just about the only negative point regarding the real-world connections a viewer makes with the buffalo and settlers is the episode not being clearer that the buffalo had more rights to the land. Had they included a small bit of the settlers admitting at the end they were more in the wrong, but the buffalo were willing to let bygones be bygones, there would be no complaints to have. Even so, the episode still ends on such a positive, nice message, with them agreeing to and share in a way that benefits both and causes neither to lose anything, that I'm willing to forgive it.
People often say the episode trivialises centuries of mistreatment by representing it with a pie fight. That would be a problem - if it wasn't abundantly clear that this episode is a 100% surreal, goofy comedy literally from its first moments, when we see Applejack gently soothing a tree to sleep (and followed by two meme-tabular moments in FlutterTree and Scary Mascara Rarity). Getting offended by that, in an episode that's a comedy and little else, would be akin to getting personally offended by:
* The caricatured designs of Arabs in Disney's (animated) Aladdin, or that Aladdin and Jasmine are far too much like 20th century teens.
* The warping of Greek mythology in Disney's Hercules.
* The sitcom-like humour in all aspects of the Incan Empire in The Emperor's New Groove (that one is the best comparison here).
* The racist episode of Father Ted. Given the episode frames Ted's views as wrong, and he gets hilariously punished for it over and over, it simply isn't offensive in the least.
* As a side note, it was believed for a long time that the 1998 Mulan was poorly received in China due to changes from the source material. Turns out that was exaggerated by the media, and people in general took it fine (it was still a box office bomb, though).
One last thing: almost all people getting offended are not part of the "marginalised" group. They're getting offended on their behalf, and as such they cannot speak for them fully either. Strikes me as a herd mentality. The scene where Rainbow and AJ - outsiders to the conflict - are arguing for either side while Braeburn and Little Strongheart - the ones actually in the conflict - are willing to calmly discuss is brilliant and hilarious, but is also kind of representative of many people's reactions to this one.
To support my point, a thought experiment: let's say the episode was altered so the buffalo represented the Irish, and the settlers the British who, in real life, conquered and controlled Ireland for nearly 800 years (over double that of the original group. Now that I am part of the "affected" society, would I be offended at this episode trivialising my history? If the episode remained as upfront about its silliness as it is here - not in the slightest. I mean that 100%.
If one still honestly, personally thinks the episode is really offensive after all that, and not just because they think they should find it offensive on behalf of others - that's fine. I can't speak for everyone. But hopefully you see, acknowledge, understand and respect my analysis on the matter. Because as the episode says, "You've got to share, you've got to care." Even if it's just sharing viewpoints that are different.
Thanks! I'm not surprised by your reply (since I was there when you gave it before :P ) but it's interesting to see you defend it in such detail. Sometimes I feel I'm the one in the smallest minority here, as someone who sees it overall as a not-great episode, neither appalling nor brilliant.
DeleteAs an American who spent a good of time during my growing up years on a couple of reservations, I find the pseudo-native buffalo incredibly offensive. Not quite as offensive as the general idiocy of the rest of the script, but it helps to place it at the bottom of the barrel for me.
Delete"What About Discord?"
ReplyDeleteThis is a technical interpretation of underrated. People hate this ep. So let's be clear: it's not a great ep, or even particularly good. Certainly, it's not an entertainment triumph. But I think this ep has an unexpectedly intelligent side to it that a lot of people overlook, and which deserves far more credit than it gets.
This episode does three major things right:
Firstly, unlike "Feeling Pinkie Keen" - which was muddled, offensively implication-riddled anti-skepticism bullshit - this one has a fair if exaggerated criticism of science, one I agree with. To wit, that some things just can't be replicated: you had to be there. Twilight trying to capture a specific, experienced moment on the grounds of generic, objective observation is futile, same as her denial of any kind of special bond between Discord and the other Main Six members in favour of pretending she can just insert herself into everyone's life experience. Even hints at the observer effect with Twilight's presence:
Discord: You weren't there observing us. No matter how hard we try, we can't possibly recreate our weekend of fun exactly as it happened because you'll always be watching, and you weren't there.
It's not just that the episode has a couple of genius bonuses: they're well-suited to the characters involved. Twilight is an explicitly rationalist, pro-science advocate who has already had to concede not everything can be understood in the academic ivory tower (her debut was centred around that). Discord, of course, is the opponent of such an orderly worldview (at the same time, it's a cute little irony that he becomes upstaged in the last minute of the ep by his own chaotic, transitory strength: the jokes become a passing fad in short order).
Secondly, this episode also raises a middle finger at the perfect pony princess depiction of present-day Twilight (something which otherwise really gets on my nerves). Instead of yet again being the rational one or the well-meaning one among five other madmares, she's placed in the hugely interesting position of suppressing her own irrational jealousy in the (misleading) name of appearing higher-minded. And frankly, if she's not going to keep up the modest mindset, this alternative is a welcome counterbalance to her spurious princess promotion.
Not that suspecting Discord of trickery is uncalled-for, but she's very obviously not conceding anything else for most of the episode, including her tendency to intellectualize it as part of the impersonal "greater good". The failure of her scientific mindset is a failure on her part, too. The mask fits the face a little too well in certain places.
And thirdly, it has Discord exploit both to hit Twilight with a double-whammy and to teach a point, an ambivalent good-bad role he's well-suited for. Picking over the table arrangements until he's edited Twilight out of the picture uses her own scientific mindset against her, to do what Discord loves doing: tormenting others. It's an intellectual knife-twist tailored for Twilight specifically. What's neat is that this ambivalence extends to Twilight herself: Twilight's prejudice against him isn't groundless, given his older history of manipulation, but in light of more recent history and the triviality of the occasion, it's still easy to concede that while also seeing how one-sided she's being in her hasty conclusion (hence the Zecora trip).
Zecora: In what way can you tell that they are indeed under a spell?
Twilight Sparkle: They're having fun with Discord, that's why!
Zecora: Ah. A friendship with Discord is truly a shock. But who says it is something that we must block?
Twilight Sparkle: Trust me, they would never laugh like that unless something magical was involved. It's not that funny. I know funny.
(Heh, I love that bit. Also chuck in Zecora's "just for show" cauldron as a funny line).
That said, it's still not great. I don't deny the execution is slow-paced, mild, trivial, overstretched (this should've been an 11-minute demi-ep, not a full ep), and rather light on laughs (if not deliberately lame and unfunny).
DeleteYet it does too many interesting things for me to write it off as the worst ep even of this season, let alone of the whole show.
Ooh, now that really was an interesting answer; thank you! As you may well know, I do (at least currently) rate that episode bottom of the pile for S5, though my reasons are substantially personal rather than rational. (Not so personal that I won't explain them when I get there, though.) But I will definitely try to keep your comments here in mind at rewatch time.
DeleteNo worries. "Personal reasons" are par for the course in episode evaluations, naturally. It's fair to say I've marked episodes down in my time because they happened to tread on bugbears of mine.
DeleteOn the plus side, it's nice to give an episode extra credit because it did something for you personally. Works both ways, after all! :)
#$%^@^@!
ReplyDeleteBlogger just ate my 500 word post!
My post wasn't quite that long, but I had the same thing happen to me where I hit preview and everything disappeared. I nearly didn't bother rewriting it all as I was on my lunch break.
DeleteYes, it was the preview button that did it to me, as well. I'll rewrite (in Word) when I have the time!
DeleteA word of warning, my friends - as you've no doubt gathered, Blogger can't post comments of certain lengths. To combat this, I usually write my comments in a word/character counter, and if minute trimming will get it in, I do that (and I don't close the counter until it's successfully posted. I'm not sure if its based on character or words, but I suspect the latter.
DeleteOddly, the amount keeps fluctuating, as it used to cut off at 3,500 characters, but the other day I got one in here that inched over 3,800. So search me. Regardless, always type them somewhere else! But you know that already, sure.