By Season 7 of Friendship is Magic, Discovery Family was finally doing interesting things with its pre-season trailers. "The Fresh Princess of Friendship" was not in fact the first S7 promo – that was this rather more conventional 30-second spot – but I'd be willing to bet it's the one most of us remember.
At long last, over a bloomin' year after I began on this season, I've made it to the end. S7 was generally more popular with fans than S6, and there's a fair case to be made that the first half especially was the last time most people were on the same page when it came to opinions of the show. Not all, but most. Of course, you'll want to see my rating compares, and so here you go:
1. Season 4: 3.42
2= Season 1: 3.38
2= Season 2: 3.38
4. Season 5: 3.27
5. Season 6: 3.23
6. Season 7: 2.96
7. Season 3: 2.92
Well now, were you expecting that? I'm not sure I was. I would have guessed that the season would come in with a rating of around 3.2 or 3.3, yet instead it ends up significantly below S6 and not a million miles ahead of the wooden-spooning S3. There turns out to be a fairly clear reason for that, which we'll see in a moment. Past the break for that and a few more details.
★★★★★
A Royal Problem
The Perfect Pear
★★★★
Parental Glideance
A Health of Information
★★★
Celestial Advice
All Bottled Up
A Flurry of Emotions
Rock Solid Friendship
Forever Filly
Discordant Harmony
Fame and Misfortune
Triple Threat
To Change a Changeling
It Isn't the Mane Thing About You
Once Upon a Zeppelin
Secrets and Pies
Uncommon Bond
Shadow Play, part 1
Shadow Play, part 2
★★
Fluttershy Leans In
Hard to Say Anything
Honest Apple
Not Asking for Trouble
Campfire Tales
Daring Done?
Marks and Recreation
★
none
Compare with the S6 summary, and the two-star count has risen from five episodes to seven. A rise, but not that big a rise. What really does stand out is just how few episodes made it to the upper echelons of my star ratings. S6 had ten episodes managing four or five stars, pretty much on a par with earlier seasons. S7, however, contained a mere four. The fun eps are still there in numbers. The truly memorable ones are falling away.
One thing that didn't change from S6 was the level of disagreement in my blog comments about some episodes. "Shadow Play", for example, was both given very positive write-ups and considered rather underwhelming. It probably doesn't even need to be said that the episode with the widest range of opinion expressed was "Fame and Misfortune". But hay, I said it anyway.
Back when we did the UK of Equestria rankings, "A Royal Problem" topped our average ratings with some ease. That episode is still very popular, and I gave it a five-star rating again this time, but the consensus has slipped just a little since 2017. Conversely, "The Perfect Pear" is now as close to universally recognised as a classic as FiM this late in its run can produce. Indeed, the last cast-iron classic, a slightly saddening thought.
One thing that caused irritation in S7's initial run was that leaks and early international broadcasts were now both common enough to make the shared watching experience more diluted. Indeed, I remember it was actually worthy of note when Iron Will's reappearance in "Once Upon a Zeppelin" wasn't spoiled in advance! Fortunately it was a solid episode anyway.
The Pillars, who had made their debut in the IDW comics, were the arc this season, insofar as S7 really had an arc. They didn't really capture the imagination of the fandom for the most part, except right at the end with the then-very popular finale, and it's not really a surprise that they largely faded out of the show after this. No long-running multi-season arcs concluded in S7.
There were no one-star episodes, at least, although there were some that very much underwhelmed me. "Fluttershy Leans In" was a particular disappointment, while the fact that I actually had to check back just now to remind myself what actually happened in "Daring Done?" probably tells its own story. Still, most of the two-star eps were just pedestrian and "could have done better" rather than anything worse.
I can't end without a mention of FiM's one and only big-screen outing – well, unless you count the short segments in the Equestria Girls films. I'm very glad My Little Pony: the Movie exists. It was entertaining and colourful, it contained some fine songs and a few memorable scenes, Emily Blunt was excellent as Tempest, and the Toon Boom animation worked. It did, however, miss some opportunities, move a little far away from established Equestrian canon at times, and do poorly by AJ and 'Shy.
Looking ahead now to S8, I feel a certain amount of apprehension. It's always been my least favourite season overall, with only a small number of episodes I truly love and rather too many I could do without. I don't think it's spoiling much to say that I will be quite surprised if I don't give a certain first-half episode the lowest possible rating. I really hope, though, that there will be a few nice surprises as well. I'll try not to take more than a year this time!
Well now, were you expecting that? I'm not sure I was.
ReplyDeleteI kind of did: it came up a few times this season how few episodes were knockouts. I'm surprised it still out-inched Season Three, and to be honest, I'm kind of convinced that, with as long as this rewatch project has taken, your grading criteria have gradually relaxed as the seasons have gone by – you have said before how Season Seven was when you'd realised the show wasn't the same and decided to accept that and pivot to just looking for a fun time in the moment, after all.
Or perhaps this just shows the difficult of a 5-point rating system where the top and bottom tiers hardly ever see usage. Oh well, I suppose ratings are never an exact science anyway.
As for myself, whoa boy, have I been waiting for this one…
Honestly, Season Seven has every bit a split identity as the last two (Season Five for the felt effect of all the writer changes, Season Six for the split between new-canon episodes and those that played out like Season Five DLC), but more from lots of smaller things. There's the missed mark of the five Pillars episodes shoved into the show's back half, and whose timing, execution and abandonment thereafter makes it feel like no one wanted it at all. Some episodes viscerally attempt to recapture the earlier, simpler feel (neither of which succeed: "Honest Apple" provides a good time but strains in going back to those kind of moralistic tales, while "Secrets and Pies"'s stylistic mimicry is sunk between a "meh" joke foundation and hostile and one-note the leads are).
More obviously, there's the show truly starting to buckle under the weight of how many characters/factions it has some obligation to feature. We get more CMC episodes floundering under the broad theme of having changed and the old ways not returning ("Forever Filly", and also "Uncommon Bond", as it happens) or being stagnant in their new role ("Marks and Recreation"). Dragons, yaks and changelings gets episodes visibly straining to weave compelling stories or characters out of their kingdom changes in the show's watered-down tone. Starlight is better integrated but still absorbs a few focused episodes. Flurry Heart's only featured appearance shows up. And then there's fulfilling long-felt viewer (and staff) wishes in Celestia/Luna and Apple parents episodes, or one directly responding to the fandom.
Wanting to try out different things like this isn't inherently bad, it can for sure bring welcome variety: the sub-theme of familial episodes that spotlight previously-unseen/unfocused sets of parents, in particular, turned out honestly great (though seriously, where was the Rarity parents episode?). And some of these varying directions have energy and passion, but most have a distinct sense of obligation milieu wafting around them.
That's just in the concepts: meanwhile the actual writing and execution just feels rather strained and forced. I've harped on enough times about how many episodes felt padded to reach 22 minutes (sometimes to the point of feeling like 11-minute concepts), how lopsided the structure often is with prolonged cold opens, inciting incidents happening like 40% in, cramped third acts that really shrink the scale. And above all, the circular, repetitive approach to writing dialogue (partially, I'm sure, from the scripts being written shorter such that the animatic cuts which previously snugged up the pacing and trimmed unnecessary lines no longer happen). People evidently don't find all that interesting, I don't think anyone has ever responded to these points I've made for any episode, but it all contributes to a distinct sense of the show being diluted, which alongside the kind of visual comic timing the show once had not being there (the one tradeoff to the visual style boost over the years), just makes it all feel kind of… samey.
[continued below]
[continued from above]
DeletePossibly all the new and one-off writers contributed to a lot of episodes straining or feeling like they have to relearn known aspects (eight writers or writer pairs debuted this season), but all the above together just makes Season Seven feel… kind of personality-less. Probably the most so in the whole show – the next two may be horrible seasons, but they clearly have a personality and authorial voice.
And the heavy amount of integrated newer elements, and those commenting or revolving around loose changes means, even if many are treading water, that there's no separating much of this out like with Season Six. Which is why this felt far closer to the last two seasons than Season Six's "okay, you're mostly like Season Five, but a third of you is your own new, poorer thing" feel. In some respects, this is better: there's no denying Starlight's better integration and further distance from her villain self is welcome. But between many ideas being lacking, and the execution often being lacking… yeah, it's not surprising this season has very few high-tier episodes. And the one that do are generally leaning into the strengths of the show's current style while happening to lack the weaknesses.
_____
This time, I didn't even bother attempting to make my ratings work on your scale system, so I've stuck with half-star intervals for a ten-point system. What I know from film analysis over the years, sure. I've yet to convert Seasons Four and Five to this scale, but this benefits Season Six immensely: it goes from my quoted 2.46 when you reflected on it to 2.83, mostly off how many episodes had to go down a whole star rather than the intended half a star on your system.
For clarity, three stars is what a consider a passable episode, the minimum positive rating threshold. 2.5 stars is about equivalent to your general criteria for two stars.
Fantastic (★★★★★)
1. The Perfect Pear
Great (★★★★½)
N/A
Really Good (★★★★)
2. Once Upon a Zeppelin
3. Discordant Harmony
Good (★★★½)
4. Parental Glideance
5. Honest Apple
6. Marks and Recreation
7. A Health of Information
Decent (★★★)
8. A Flurry of Emotions
9. Uncommon Bond
10. Rock Solid Friendship
11. Shadow Play (Part 1)
Okay (★★½)
12. Forever Filly
13. All Bottled Up
14. Not Asking for Trouble
15. Shadow Play (Part 2)
16. Secrets and Pies / o
Weak (★★)
17. Celestial Advice
18. Hard to Say Anything
19. Triple Threat
20. Campfire Tales
21. To Change a Changeling
22. Fluttershy Leans In
23. It Isn’t the Mane Thing About You
24. Daring Done?
Bad (★½)
N/A
Terrible (★)
25. A Royal Problem*
26. Fame and Misfortune*
Abysmal (½)
N/A
* As my hatred for these two is widely known, I will stress that mild compensating factors (the song and some jokes in "Fame and Misfortune" for instance) plus needing a threshold above the worst to come, keeps them out of Abysmal.
AVERAGE STAR RATING: 2.67
Season Seven actually had less episodes below two stars than Six for me, but the average quality landing many in the Okay and Weak tiers does line up with yours, if to a greater degree: much of this season is just lacklustre and there on an individual basis. But coupled with fewer great episodes, it does build up to rather a heavy dissatisfaction with the season for me, more than it only being 0.16 below the last season would suggest.
_____
As mentioned before, now you're entering the Canon In Name Only era, Logan, I will only be commenting on episodes I can find more than breadcrumbs to say nice things about (for my money, the first of these is "Surf and/or Turf"). DannyJ's covered my broad feelings, if more intensely, on the last two seasons anyway. I won't rule out possibly rewatching them at some point just to have my opinion on record, but I don't think I need to do so here on initial viewing. People don't like when I'm largely negative here, no matter how measured I am or the interesting points I bring.
Your ranking list doesn't contain any real surprises, and it's not news to anyone that the only episode where you really part company from the fandom's average opinion is "A Royal Problem". The other 25 ratings are either in line with most people or at least in line with a pretty substantial minority. So I'll move on to saying that yes, I think it is indeed fair to say that by this time in the show's run my criteria had (and have) shifted a bit since the early seasons.
DeleteAs we've both observed, one of the biggest changes this time is that the really fine episodes are far fewer in number. "The Perfect Pear" is obviously one we both agree on, and one that I think would still have stood out even in say S4. But it's quite thin pickings otherwise, and we won't be seeing ten 4+ eps again, at least not unless I re-re-watch the whole show one day!
As I've said elsewhere, thank you for accompanying me thus far, and I'll always be happy to see your comments whenever you do want to make them for S8 and S9. I shall definitely try to get through those seasons considerably faster, partly I have to say because there are some episodes I don't want to dwell on for too long...
"I've harped on enough times about how many episodes felt padded to reach 22 minutes (sometimes to the point of feeling like 11-minute concepts), how lopsided the structure often is with prolonged cold opens, inciting incidents happening like 40% in, cramped third acts that really shrink the scale. And above all, the circular, repetitive approach to writing dialogue (partially, I'm sure, from the scripts being written shorter such that the animatic cuts which previously snugged up the pacing and trimmed unnecessary lines no longer happen). People evidently don't find all that interesting, I don't think anyone has ever responded to these points I've made for any episode, but it all contributes to a distinct sense of the show being diluted, which alongside the kind of visual comic timing the show once had not being there (the one tradeoff to the visual style boost over the years), just makes it all feel kind of… samey."
DeleteI guess it's the sort of subtle change that gets lost in the shuffle of concept and character. You definitely articulate the "flatness" of episodes that feel stretched and unrealized: I find it most obvious in examples like "Forever Filly" and "Fluttershy Leans In", wherein some scenes feel like there's too much talking or overexplaining. It's just that details like that get overshadowed by the greater impressions I get, namely that the former is a snoozer and the latter has a jarring concept, dissatisfying in its integration and with unfortunate black-and-white anti-expertise implications in its execution.
Honestly, I'm glad you raised the point about the dialogue. When I next revisit these episodes, I'll have to see if it becomes one of those "ah, THAT's what he meant! How did I miss that?" experiences in hindsight.
Darn, that was me, sorry. Again with the anonymous thing!
Delete2.96 out of 5? I wasn't expecting that from you.
ReplyDeleteIn retrospect, I feel that much of the positivity surrounding Season 7 came from both the disappointment of Season 6 and the hype surrounding The Movie, which may have ended up causing opinions to cool off in the past few years or so, especially with what came out later.
Me personally, I still have a soft spot for this season as it aired during a time I was going through some changes in my personal life, having moved state in 2017. So I can't really bring myself to criticize it too harshly.
A Royal Problem, The Perfect Pear and A Health of Information all remain in my top three like they did seven years ago, and the biggest clunkers this season had to offer were Fame and Misfortune and Secrets and Pies. Most everything else ranges from decent to great.
So yeah, Season 7's my third favorite of the show, and the last one I can call genuinely good. Season 8's not held up all that well, and Season 9... well, I come to that when you revisit it.
Indeed, my guess would have been for S7 to beat not only S3 but S6 as well, but no. You make a fair point about how S7 may have benefited from when it appeared, and that that aspect has been lost a bit since then. There are still episodes I love here -- the three you name-check are all up there for me as well -- but not as many as I'd have liked.
DeleteAs far as S8 is concerned, I think my enjoyment is largely going to be drawn from what Mike mentioned as "a fun time in the moment". There are exceptions -- Brian Hohlfeld's two eps, "Surf and/or Turf" and "The Hearth's Warming Club" are instalments I hope and expect still to like a fair bit. But S8 also has some of my least favourite episodes of the show's run (S9 is ahead of it overall) so we'll have to see. Thank you for accompanying me thus far!
I'm actually not too surprised - as someone who only started the show in 2020 without any real connection to the fandom, I missed most of the popular opinions of the time, though inevitably I've been aware of the down-the-line sentiment on the seasons as I've watched.
ReplyDeleteMy rankings on a per-season basis would more or less correlate with yours, with the exception of Season 4. The first half is, at least in my view, an utter slog I only pressed through because I knew there were better ones ahead I wanted to see, and so my ranking for it would be in the bottom with Season 3.
If it hadn't improved in the second half I might have simply stopped watching and moved on without really getting involved in the fandom outside of that watch.
Season 7 was less of a slog, but enough of one that I certainly didn't rush to complete it - it took at least a year for me to finally finish it.
"Conversely, "The Perfect Pear" is now as close to universally recognised as a classic as FiM this late in its run can produce. Indeed, the last cast-iron classic, a slightly saddening thought."
At least one reason I still haven't pressed on to Season 8 is the knowledge that there's no 'really good episode' in that mix. I still plan to get to it...sometime. :)
What a ride, eh? Sure was fun (or fun-ish) while it lasted.
ReplyDeleteThe highest praise I can give to "The Perfect Pear" is that I think it would've been an outstanding episode even among the early seasons' lineup*.
*In terms of quality. Continuity-wise, its impact relies precisely on its coming along later, long enough for the unspoken mystery around the Apple parents to simmer.
"S7 was generally more popular with fans than S6"
This is surprising to me, because my own view is that I can name far more episodes I enjoyed from S6 than S7.
Also, I mentioned back in your reflections on Season 6 that - if you take out the controversial Starlight episodes - S6 otherwise struck me as an expansion pack on S5, which I and many other generally liked. I can't really say the same for S7, and one obvious reason is that Starlight becomes a lot more prominent in it. See:
https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Starlight_Glimmer#Appearances
Also, it feels like a much messier season overall to me. Even S6 had a consistent overarching focus on Starlight start-to-finish: it just wasn't present in most of its Slice-of-Life episodes. S7 finishes on a different implied arc to the one it started with, and the S8 "soft reboot" approach retroactively makes it seem even more arbitrary.
Lastly, I do think the change in direction harmed the quality and consistency overall. In S6, the first great episode for me is "Gauntlet of Fire", only five episodes in, and the season has some pretty solid episodes spread out fairly frequently after that; by contrast, S7 doesn't hit anywhere near that level till "Honest Apple" (if I'm generous) or "Discordant Harmony" and "The Perfect Pear", by which point it's at the halfway mark. The best it has to offer beyond that lies on a couple of minor clusters isolated among much weaker efforts, and the Pillars episodes - which I at least like in theory - just don't do it for me in practice.
"yet instead it ends up significantly below S6 and not a million miles ahead of the wooden-spooning S3"
Myself, I'd rank them thus:
S1 at the top (past a slow first quarter and allowing for local dips, it really does define pony for me and holds strong to the end)
S2 not far behind (I find it a bit more wobbly than the consensus does, but some of the show's all-time greatest episodes came from here)
S4 (gets by mostly through mild pleasures: it rarely hits greatness, but to be fair it rarely embarrasses itself either)
S5 not far behind (a handful of eps are way too controversial for my liking at all, but it somewhat redeems itself by having stronger hits than S4)
S3 (yeah, it's got stinkers, but for a success ratio, it's about par with S6, and in hindsight I find its decisions less offensive)
S6 (you know why I don't like a significant chunk of it, and there are some duds even besides that, but half of it seems on par with S5's standard)
S7 (as discussed, I'm grasping at straws for most of it)
And voila!
Sorry, I got more to say!
Delete"With the very arguable exception of M. A. Larson, this was the first time in FiM's run that there were no writing credits for people who were around in the early days of the show."
"Josh Haber's increasingly obvious influence as the season progressed became an (also increasingly) contentious point for a number of fans, too. Gee Toto, I don't think we're in S1 any more."
It really is fascinating to look back and see in hindsight the obvious wholesale changes between the first half of the show and the second (something I've blogged about myself when discussing season five as "the most interesting season of the show", though DannyJ has the more interesting analysis below, in his "Student Counsel" review).
https://www.fimfiction.net/blog/930391/dannyj-reviews-mlp-season-9-part-2
What I find surprising is how much of the show's audience interest seems to have peaked during S4 and S5 (I'd have guessed earlier). Granted, others might disagree, but it looks to me like many people had sensed the change in the wind, and some lost interest over time (though to be fair, this has to be contrasted with the null hypothesis that fandom interest was going to decline anyway, and the changing staff and focus were all just coincidental). Site statistics on FIMFiction.net point to something similar, with reductions in activity starting around the S3-S5 range:
https://www.fimfiction.net/statistics
One obvious factor is that redeemed-Starlight's introduction and expansion of focus was controversial for many, but I also think there was a jarring change of overarching direction and a loss of momentum as well.
Twilight's always had the greatest focus, but beginning arguably with "A Canterlot Wedding" and definitely by the time S3 rolled around, there was a greater arc building of her rise to power (I mean that in a good way!) and the surrounding context changing either as a result or by association. The introduction of VIP relatives/backstory associates Cadence and Shining Armor, the way Discord's redemption relied on her as much as it relied on Fluttershy, the increasing focus on the political implications of Twilight's princess ascension, and her new HQ becoming a recurring plot element, follow through quite obviously up to about S5... at which point things switch to a Starlight-dominant focus, with Twilight's arc effectively grinding to a halt.
The others start getting "wrap-ups" as well (Rarity's business gaining key ground, Rainbow finally joining the squad, Fluttershy's sudden interest in a wildlife sanctuary), and judging from the detail DannyJ provides, this was a deliberate attempt to start drawing the old era to a close.
(To get a general idea of the creative clusterbomb that resulted, DannyJ also provides the details here in the introduction, around the point he discusses "Twilight becomes a princess"):
https://www.fimfiction.net/blog/898749/dannyj-reviews-mlp-season-8-part-1
Long story short, apart from the consistency of redeemed-Starlight becoming a major player - which itself was a jarring left turn from Twilight's overarching story - the second half of the show and especially from S7 onward becomes a flurry of new ideas and characters, most of which weren't as properly developed. Combined with the movie's new continuity to massage into shape, and until S9 jumps back to wrapping up Twilight's arc, there isn't - in my eyes - a coherent, disciplined vision in the back half. And that's not counting how one interprets other elements, such as how writers depict the characters episode to episode.
For one thing, I think these shifting sands were the biggest reason the Pillars got shafted as they did.
It's not the only factor impacting my evaluation of S7, but it seems to me to be a pretty big one.
Last one!
Delete"One thing that caused irritation in S7's initial run was that leaks and early international broadcasts were now both common enough to make the shared watching experience more diluted. Indeed, I remember it was actually worthy of note when Iron Will's reappearance in "Once Upon a Zeppelin" wasn't spoiled in advance! Fortunately it was a solid episode anyway."
This is interesting for me to read about: my experience up until I started buying DVDs was largely "YouTube" and "when I felt like it", so I missed out on media details like this at the time.
"FiM's one and only big-screen outing"
Huh, I had to check: I forgot you'd already done the movie. For a moment there, I thought you were gonna do it after S7. Faulty memory strikes again!
"Looking ahead now to S8, I feel a certain amount of apprehension. It's always been my least favourite season overall, with only a small number of episodes I truly love and rather too many I could do without."
Well, good luck to ya. Abandon all hope, ye who enter Season Eight!
Okay, that's over the top, but yeah, I never actually finished this season and there's a reason for that. :/
Huh, I had three comments lined up here, but the second seems to have disappeared. Not sure why: it went through same as the others originally.
DeleteOh wait, there it is.
DeleteIt got caught in the spam trap, perhaps for having multiple external links, so I went and manually not-spammed it in the settings.
Delete